terzo indovinello svizzero

[coinzh]

moneta greca coniata in un posto dove si coniavano monete greche.

1. zecca, mi dovrete poi spiegare delle cose a me ignote su questa zecca, ad esempio dove era ubicata perché non l'ho capito

2. cosa c'è sull'altra faccia o foto di una moneta dello stesso tipo (più difficile...)

[okt]

Potrebbe essere un tetartemorion di Cnido, con il leone al dritto. Ma possibile che tu non conosca Cnido/Knidos? Penso perciò aver sbagliato.

Infatti: è Mantinea, al dritto Zeus.

Modificato 19 Gennaio, 2021 da okt

[coinzh]

Non e' ne cnido ne mantinea.

correggo: mantinea dovrebbe essere giusto, credevo la zecca era liga arcadica ma credo sono equivalenti.

potreste spiegarmi cosa era la liga arcadica e mantinea ? Era un posto fisico o una unione di varie citta' ?

Ho trovato questa spiegazione: http://penelopecoins.com/index.php?p=item&cid=1&id=1190

quando fu fondata la liga arcadica ?

Modificato 19 Gennaio, 2021 da coinzh

[apollonia]

Heraia

Pan

[apollonia]

In questo esemplare Kallisto è più somigliante con la testa laureata sul rovescio della moneta del quiz.

Comunque sono arrivato secondo.

[coinzh]

Nel catalogo dell'asta leu (era l'asta leu monete peloponneso (di quel collezionista greco famoso che ha venduto la sua collezione gigante credo) mi sembra che scrivevano qualcun altro e non kallisto.

[skubydu]

3 minuti fa, coinzh dice:

Nel catalogo dell'asta leu (era l'asta leu monete peloponneso (di quel collezionista greco famoso che ha venduto la sua collezione gigante credo) mi sembra che scrivevano qualcun altro e non kallisto.

BCD collection Leu 96 

gran collezione e gran collezionista. Mai visto nulla del genere ...

 

[apollonia]

 

ARKADIA, Arkadian League. Circa 450-440/30 BC. AR Hemidrachm (14mm, 2.82 g, 2h). Mantineia mint. Zeus Lykaios seated left, right hand extended, holding upright scepter in left; to left, eagle flying left / Head of Kallisto right, wearing earring and necklace with pendant; A-R-K-A at corners; all within incuse square. Williams, Confederate 243 (O161/R153); BCD Peloponnesos 1459 (same rev. die); SNG Copenhagen 170. Good VF, toned. Struck from dies of fine style. Very rare.

Ex BCD Collection (not in LHS sale); Peus 284 (9 December 1974), lot 330.

Between 465 and circa 416 BC, Mantineia, one of the most important cities in Arkadia, struck an extensive series of hemidrachms and smaller fractions. This series is noted for its great variety of artistically executed archaic heads of Kallisto.

 

[apollonia]

 

[okt]

Siamo sicuri che BCD sia/fosse un collezionista?

[okt]

9 ore fa, coinzh dice:

Non e' ne cnido ne mantinea.

correggo: mantinea dovrebbe essere giusto, credevo la zecca era liga arcadica ma credo sono equivalenti.

potreste spiegarmi cosa era la liga arcadica e mantinea ? Era un posto fisico o una unione di varie citta' ?

Ho trovato questa spiegazione: http://penelopecoins.com/index.php?p=item&cid=1&id=1190

quando fu fondata la liga arcadica ?

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lega_arcadica

[coinzh]

3 ore fa, okt dice:

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lega_arcadica

Se la lega arcadica fu fondata nel 370 aC perche' monete antecedenti a questa data vengono pure descritte / classificate come appartenenti alla lega arcadica ? Questa cosa mi confonde e mi ha confuso in passato.

Modificato 20 Gennaio, 2021 da coinzh

[apollonia]

4 ore fa, okt dice:

Siamo sicuri che BCD sia/fosse un collezionista?

Qui si parla di iniziali di un collezionista anonimo...

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=bcd collection

apollonia

[okt]

21 ore fa, coinzh dice:

Se la lega arcadica fu fondata nel 370 aC perche' monete antecedenti a questa data vengono pure descritte / classificate come appartenenti alla lega arcadica ? Questa cosa mi confonde e mi ha confuso in passato.

In effetti, non è chiaro e forse è improprio attribuire il nome di Lega arcadica alle coniazioni precedenti al 370. In BMC infatti troviamo la generica denominazione di "Arcadians". Ecco due citazioni che possono chiarire:

Tsiolis, V. Modelos políticos y sociedad en Arcadia, in: Studia Historica. Historia Antigua 23 (2005), 39-56.

Los documentos locales más antiguos que aluden al gentilicio colectivo de los arcadios, las bien conocidas series de acuñaciones de plata con la leyenda ΑΡΚΑΔΙ­ΚΏΝ, no se remontan más allá de las primeras décadas del siglo V a.C (p.41)

Durante la primera mitad del siglo V a.C, las acuñaciones con la leyenda ΑΡΚΑΔ1ΚΟΝ hicieron pensar a algunos investigadores en la existencia de un Estado federal arcadio, aunque otros defendieron que esta monetización tan especial tan sólo era el reflejo de una unión de tipo anfictiónico (y no político) en torno al santuario y festivales panarcádicos de Zeus Lykaios. En todo caso, se suele asumir que la leyenda APKAΔΙΚΟΝ pone de manifiesto cómo la identidad arcadia estaba ya forjada en estos momentos. Con todo, no parece que el sentido de solidaridad étnica haya logrado que se pusiera en marcha un proyecto de unión política de los distintos componentes del ethnos antes de la creación de la efímera Liga Arcadia, de los días inmediatamente posteriores a Leuctra (371 a.C). (pp. 43-44)

--------------------------------------------------------

Pretzler, M. Arcadia: Ethnicity and Politics in the Fifth and Fourth Centuries BC
in: https://chs.harvard.edu/CHS/article/display/6099.vi-maria-pretzler-arcadia-ethnicity-and-politics-in-the-fifth-and-fourth-centuries-bce

The most striking example for apparently common Arcadian activity is a large but enigmatic series of coins which started some time before the mid-fifth century and continued for some decades, possibly as the largest coinage in the Peloponnese. [37] These coins bear the image of Zeus Lykaios and an unidentified goddess; there is also a legend ΑΡΚΑΔΙΚΟΝ, usually in abbreviated form. As Nielsen shows conclusively, it is very unlikely that there ever was an Arcadian state, or any kind of fully fledged pan-Arcadian organization before the foundation of the federal state in the fourth century. [38] Nielsen stresses the connection of the Arkadikon coinage with the sanctuary on Mount Lykaion; as already mentioned, this was a particularly important place for a common regional identity. [39] There is no evidence that the Lykaion was under firm control of one polis before its inclusion in the territory of Megalopolis. Communities in the area lived in villages and small towns and were organized in tribes. The initiative could have come from an organization of states around the sanctuary, a putative Arcadian amphiktyony, as Nielsen suggests, although such an organization is not attested in the sources. [40] It seems more likely that the Arkadikon coinage represents the attempt by one or more individual powers to harness Arcadian symbols and sentiments for their own ends.

37. Williams 1965, Kraay 1976:98.
38. Nielsen 2002:120–157, Nielsen 1996. One suggestion was that a league was created by Cleomenes I: see especially Wallace 1954, but evidence for events (most prominently Herodotus 9.33, 9.35) in fifth-century Arcadia contradict the idea of a long-lasting comprehensive league. See Roy 1972a; cf. Andrewes 1952.
39. Nielsen 2002:145–152, Nielsen 1996:56–61, Head 1911:444–445, 447–448 (“festival coinage”).
40. See Nielsen 2002:150–152.
....
Such ostensibly (if not geographically comprehensive) pan-Arcadian activities were probably the driving force behind the creation of the Arkadikon coinage. If we follow Kraay in dating the beginning of the series just before the mid-fifth century, the best candidate for initiating this coinage is Tegea’s alliance, which fought Sparta at Dipaia. Cleomenes’ activities in Arcadia predate the earliest coins, while Mantinea’s rise in the second half of the fifth century comes too late. [58] This would also explain why Tegea, a large and relatively prosperous city, apparently did not mint coins of its own for most of the fifth century. [59] As long as Tegea was the leader of a substantial Arcadian alliance it would have had the clout to determine the use of Arcadian symbols and to initiate a regional coinage which may then have continued well beyond the period of Tegea’s greatest influence. In the variable political climate of fifth-century Arcadia no single substantial Arcadian organization is likely to have survived as long as the Arkadikon coinage, but pan-Arcadian rhetoric and symbols clearly proved useful in different situations. Under such circumstances the minting of Arkadikon coins may well have been interrupted, or perhaps there were even several cities which struck coins of this type at different times: both scenarios would account for the distinct die sequences identified by Williams. [60] The focus on Zeus Lykaios would suggest a commitment to a pan-Arcadian rhetoric which could be seen as more inclusive than any symbol closely connected to Tegea itself, particularly the city’s major goddess, Athena Alea. The control over (or access to) the Lykaion sanctuary might have played a role in Tegea’s conflict with Mantinea in the area of Oresthasion and Ladokeion, not far from Mount Lykaion. [61]
....
59. Nielsen 1996:56; Head 1911:454: start of Tegean coins in c. 420 BCE. Possible archaic coinage: Nielsen 2002:594.
60. Williams 1965.
61. Thucydides 4.134, 5.29.1, Nielsen 2002:372–373.
....
Nielsen, T. H. 1996. “Was there an Arkadian Confederacy in the Fifth Century?” More Studies in the Ancient Greek Polis (eds. M. H. Hansen and K. Raaflaub) 39–62. Stuttgart.
Head, B. V. 1911. Historia Numorum. Oxford. Second Edition.
Nielsen, T. H. 2002. Arkadia and its Poleis in the Archaic and Classical Periods. Göttingen.
Kraay, C. M. 1976. Archaic and Classical Greek Coins. London.
Head, B. V. 1911. Historia Numorum. Oxford. Second Edition.
Williams, R. T. 1965. The Confederate Coinage of the Arcadians in the Fifth Century BCE. New York.

Modificato 21 Gennaio, 2021 da okt